Anna,

You’re another in a long string of victims of general dentists who don’t know much about cosmetic dentistry but yet try to do smile makeovers.

My first clue was the naive comment by your dentist that, “The people from Lumineers would know exactly what to do.” Two comments about that. First, it is the dentist who is supposed to know what to do and is supposed to tell the laboratory what to do. Second, the Lumineers laboratory is not one of your excellent esthetic dental laboratories. They do NOT know exactly what to do.

But then you have a problem that legally, you don’t have a recourse if the Lumineers are functional. Cosmetic dentistry is not a legally distinct specialty, so it is judged by the standards of general dentistry. The overwhelming majority of dentists are not artistic, so the governing philosophy in the profession is that if the teeth are functional, they are okay. So you’re not going to get support for your complaints.

So, as far as I can tell, what you’re left with is to try to persuade this dentist to refund your money, with sweet talk, flattery, or whatever you can. Unless there is something gross that was done.

Do you have a photograph of your teeth that you can send me? If I can see anything wrong functionally with the teeth, there may be more you can do. Maybe a photograph of just the teeth and a photograph of your face with the teeth showing the mismatch you’re talking about.

Thanks,

Dr. Hall

Links: Lumineers problems.
And we just added a page to mynewsmile where we are soliciting Reviews of Lumineers.

I just read your “Lumineers cost“article at  and also the “example” question and answer which pertains to this topic and I was so pleased to read it. I write dental websites, and because of my familiarity with the dental world I have long been aware that Lumineers are not the best option available. I prefer not to write about them in favorable terms, but it is sometimes required as part of my job. I was pleased to read this direct and honest representation of Lumineers. In writing for dental websites, I have seen innumerable before and after images of Lumineers and of truly custom porcelain veneers, and the difference is almost always highly noticeable. While I cannot write website articles that warn individuals against Lumineers in a professional sense, I was very pleased to see that someone else has. Your article came up 3rd when I Googled “Lumineers.”

Because of the nature of my work, I prefer not to make my name available and would appreciate your discretion regarding my email address. However, I wanted to thank you for representing Lumineers as an option, but one which may have more negative than positive aspects.

I am amused to read your “hate mail section” - to find that dentists who are not willing to undergo the training which will allow them to do really great dental work are disparaging toward your article and email, and see it only as confirmation of their lack of interest in their patients’ welfare. Sincerely, &tc.

“L”

Dear “L”,
Thanks for your kind comments.

Roni,
First, on how NOT to make sure your dentist is a Lumineers expert – don’t use the Lumineers website. Dentists get listed as certified for Lumineers by paying money to the company. That’s all there is to it. It’s all a branding and marketing thing.

Here’s what the Lumineers advertisements don’t tell you – the big secret. There is nothing really unique about Lumineers. It’s just a brand of porcelain veneers. Even though their company has a training program and “certifies” dentists, all they have to do is pay them money and attend their course. There is no test, and many of the dentists who get certified do lousy work. If you find an expert and artistic cosmetic dentist, they can do Lumineers or any other brand of porcelain veneers. And there are other brands of porcelain that are as thin as Lumineers and look more beautiful.

As far as how to find an artistic and expert cosmetic dentist, that is the whole purpose of this website – why it exists. Because cosmetic dentistry isn’t a legally distinct specialty, any dentist can claim to be a cosmetic dentist without any special training. The few who take the trouble to really learn the field well, those are the ones I seek out to list on their site. We don’t list every expert cosmetic dentist, but all the ones we list are truly expert, because of our screening process. So check out our Southern California cosmetic dentists and pick one, and you can’t go wrong.

- Dr. Hall

They don’t respond to bleach. And when I brush them, they look worse, because you can see the difference in the color between the fillings and the teeth more clearly.

My dentist has talked to me about Lumineers, and I wonder if this would help or if the color of the fillings would show through. What is the best thing for me to do?

- Ana in New Jersey

Dear Ana,
The answer to your question is actually fairly simple. I think you’re making it too complicated. You have discolored fillings because the dentist that did them didn’t know how to make them match your teeth.

There are bonding materials that are used for fillings that have every tooth shade under the sun, and they can mimic your natural teeth in translucency, in gloss, and in texture. So you just need a dentist who knows how to do this. See our dental bonding page to see how beautiful these fillings can be.

Whatever you do, don’t do Lumineers. They will make your teeth longer, and they will be bulky. And if you’re happy with the shapes of your teeth, there is no point to doing Lumineers – that’s overtreatment that you don’t need. The problem is the fillings, so just get the fillings fixed.

Check our list of New Jersey cosmetic dentists. Any one of them that we list would be able to do your fillings so that your teeth will look beautiful. I screen these dentists carefully and am confident of their artistic abilities.

One caveat – if your fillings are so large that they cover maybe 1/3 or more of the surface of your teeth, it may be best to shave down the fillings a little and put regular porcelain veneers over them. But not Lumineers.

Good luck,
Dr. Hall

Related links:
Find a cosmetic dentist close to you.

I am seriously thinking about getting Lumineers. I am thinking about using Dr. —- from Los Angeles. I understand that he is one of the premiere Lumineers dentists. I was wondering if you could do some research on him and provide me with any feedback on his training, cosmetic dentistry background, complaints, awards, etc.

Also, would Lumineers be a good option? Are there good reviews and feedback on Lumineers looking nice and also lasting a while? I’m afraid of having my teeth shaved down and wanted to go the route of Lumineers if they are worth it.

Thanks a lot,
Ken from Pennsylvania

Dear Kenneth,
I can find no evidence of any cosmetic dentistry training that Dr. —- has. Sorry. He isn’t even a member of the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, which to me shows a low level of commitment to cosmetic dentistry. And I can’t find his name among graduates of some of the popular cosmetic dentistry training courses that I have access to. And the other question I ask – is he an artist? I don’t know the answer to that. Most expert cosmetic dentists who are artists do post their work on the Internet, and I don’t find any of his posted. So I’m skeptical about that.

And the fact that you are telling me you are afraid of getting your teeth shaved DOWN concerns me. I think you’ve been overly influenced by the commercials. Before you go and possibly ruin your smile, I think you owe it to yourself to get some accurate information. And here are the inaccuracies I believe you have bought into:

1) For porcelain veneers, generally your teeth are shaved a little, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say they’re shaved DOWN. In many cases, from a conversational distance, you can’t even tell that the teeth are changed after they have been prepared for porcelain veneers and before the veneers are put on. That’s how small the reduction is, in many cases, if you get the beautiful porcelain veneers.

2) On the other side, I’m not so sure that Lumineers can be removed without damaging the teeth. Yes, THEORETICALLY, since the teeth aren’t shaved at all before placing the Lumineers. But it is very easy to have an ”accident” when the Lumineers are removed and to have a tooth or teeth gouged or nicked.

My advice is not to go only to a dentist who promotes himself too heavily as a “Lumineers dentist” before getting a new smile. You may not get an honest opinion about whether or not they’re good for you. Go to an expert cosmetic dentist first. Any expert cosmetic dentist listed on our website is able to do Lumineers. Just go for an opinion. Then compare what the two dentists say. Armed with more information, you are in a better position to make a good decision about whether or not to do Lumineers.

And I have not seen a really nice Lumineers smile. I’ve seen some bad ones and some okay ones. I’m sure there are some really nice ones out there, but I haven’t seen any. They make your teeth look rounded, a little bulky, and a little longer.

As far as long-lasting, Lumineers are excellent in that department. They’re durable—probably better than average in that department.
- Dr. Hall

Related information:
Click here to find a cosmetic dentist, screened for artistic ability and training in cosmetic dentistry.
Read more about smile design and smile makeover.

The Lumineers people said the dentist will replace it for free. But I don’t want another one! If it could break off form me yawning, then this is a problem that I do not need. And I would expect at LEAST a partial refund. But so far they seem to not hear me when I mention a refund – they keep referring to replacing the Lumineer. The Dentist himself has never called me back, just the girl from Lumineers.
- Andrea from Florida

Dear Andrea,
We are seeing that, in spite of Lumineers being so strong, that they do break, just like other brands of porcelain veneers. They get their strength from the bond to the tooth. If they’re bonded properly and the bite is adjusted correctly and you take reasonably good care of them, they won’t break. But if they’re not bonded well, they can break very easily.

I don’t believe that legally you can insist on a refund. And it would be the dentist who would give you the refund, not the Lumineers people. If you can talk the dentist into giving you a refund, then he will, but he doesn’t have to. But I imagine they would rather just re-do it.

Has this dentist done very many of these? Hopefully he has and he can get the Lumineer to stay on this next time. I would go ahead and let them replace it. It shouldn’t happen again. If it does, then I’d just chalk it up to experience.
- Dr. Hall

Click here to find an expert cosmetic dentist.
Click here to read more about smile makeovers.

She is needing to have six teeth done.

There is a 5 year warranty and they are estimated to last 20 years. Can you verify if this is a reputable dentist and any information you can provide on the Lumineers by cerinate. Thanks in advance for your reply.
- Betty in west Texas

Dear Betty,
Whether or not the dentist is reputable isn’t the right question. You want to know if the dentist is artistic, and if he or she is trained in cosmetic dentistry.

It is not illegal to advertise as a cosmetic dentist, even if you have absolutely no training in cosmetic dentistry, and that is because cosmetic dentistry isn’t a legally recognized specialty.

I checked my sources about the dentist you mentioned. He may be very reputable, but I don’t see him on any of my lists for cosmetic dentistry training. And from what I did see on the Internet about him, I strongly suspect he is not an artistically inclined dentist.

You spoke about your daughter needing six Lumineers, as if there are teeth broken and they need to be fixed. I suspect that the situation is that she wants a beautiful smile. I would recommend against this dentist you mentioned, and I would recommend against Lumineers. Lumineers will likely make her teeth longer and bulkier, and especially if the dentist only does six, they will look funny. Lumineers work well for people with short teeth that are set back in the mouth a little. So if she wants a beautiful smile, that seems like an awful lot of money to throw at the problem and then not come away with a beautiful smile. That’s why you want an artist to do this.

Reputable dentists fix teeth so that they are functional, and they do work that lasts a long time. But unless your dentist is an artist, you may come away from the office hoping that it wears out or breaks quickly.

I would suggest a second opinion from a Texas cosmetic dentist on our referral list, before you spend all this money.

Good luck,
Dr. Hall

Click here to find a cosmetic dentist
Click here for information about porcelain veneers

Dear Joy,
I’m glad you’re happy with your Lumineers. While there are problems with Lumineers, they can be appropriate for some situations. But it’s too bad that you are having this problem with your lip. I think you’re being very nice about this issue because it seems to me that if your lip keeps getting stuck while you are speaking that this would be distracting and embarrassing. Other patients who aren’t as nice as you might be complaining loudly about this.

Lumineers are often done with a no-preparation technique, which means they are simply bonded over your existing teeth. The conventional porcelain veneer technique involves reducing the teeth about half a millimeter (approximately the thickness of a fingernail) to make space for the porcelain. This helps prevent the end result from being too thick.

Your teeth now, with the Lumineers, are a little thicker than what is natural. That’s why your lip is catching on them. And that will make your lip a little drier. I don’t believe there is any product that can help prevent that from happening. You could have the Lumineers shaved down a little and then polished well – but there would be a risk of shaving right through them to your tooth enamel, and that might look funny.

This will also lead to drying of your mouth, which can contribute to gum disease or an increased rate of tooth decay.

I don’t think there’s really anything you can do, short of re-doing the Lumineers. You’ll just need to try to adjust and get used to this.
- Dr. Hall

Other links:
Click here to find a cosmetic dentist
Click here to ask Dr. Hall a question
Do you want information on the cost of Lumineers?
GlamSmile is another short-cut option for porcelain veneers, like Lumineers

I did complain to my dentist, who is also my friend, but didn’t want him to take the money loss. The “canines” were rounded out too. I did NOT like that. Then on 31st July ‘08, I had the 6 front bottom ones put on, AND EVERY SINCE THEN I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH SALIVA. I have “dry mouth.” No, not sores or cracks, just a dry mouth, and can’t speak as fast or as well as I used to. I have investigated everything on the net re: “dry mouth,” that it could be oral cancer/diabetes/hypothyroidism/dehydration etc. I do NOT believe it is any of these.

I bought the “snake oil” Dr. Hall and now regret it.

I spoke to my dentist at length about this; he is going to call the dental lab (Glidewell in Calif.) and speak with a Dr. Michael Ditolla to find out the WHY for the dry mouth. My vivaneers were “no prep.”

According to what I have read, the vivaneers could be lasered off. I don’t know what my options are after that…bonding or? I am gun shy; I don’t think I will ever get veneers again.

The tragedy is that I am a middle school teacher and speak all the time.

Additionally, ever since the veneers went in, my lip gloss and lipstick sit differently on my lips.
My lips get dry within 25 minutes after the lipsticks go on. This NEVER happened prior to the veneers.

Thank you Dr. Hall for any light you can shed on this.

Dear Janice,
Your basic problem is that your friend is not a cosmetic dental specialist. I sympathize with you, for all the problems you’re having with these Vivaneers. Let me help you understand them.

Realize that I can’t tell for certain why you are having dry mouth without doing a thorough examination, but I can guess. And I am pretty certain that, with the Vivaneers on your teeth, you can’t close your lips or your mouth properly, and this is why your mouth is getting dry. You are breathing through your mouth, and this dries it out.

Here’s my reasoning: There isn’t anything in the porcelain or in veneers that would react with anything in your mouth or would produce any kind of a reaction that would cause dry mouth. That rules out any chemical or physiological reason, so the reason must be mechanical — an inability to close properly. And when you do no-prep veneers on the lower front teeth, it is almost guaranteed that you will open the bite. This would also cause the difficulties you’re having with speaking and with your lips drying out.

I would be surprised if the dental lab figured that out. That isn’t their department. Your dentist is the one who is supposed to know. The fact that your dentist has to call the laboratory for help with this seems to show his lack of expertise in cosmetic dentistry.

I would have the Vivaneers removed. I rarely say that, but in your case, I believe that would be best. And your dentist doing only six veneers on the upper and six on the lower is also poor. Cosmetic dentists and all your friends know that when you smile you show at least eight teeth on the upper – sometimes ten or even twelve.

You’ve learned the hard way that you can’t go to a general or a family dentist for cosmetic dentistry. Dentists as a rule are technically oriented and aren’t artists. Don’t lose your faith in cosmetic dentistry, but if you decide you want to have this done right, go to one of the Connecticut cosmetic dentists on our list. Please, for your sake and the sake of your relationship with your dentist, don’t have him do any more appearance-related work. And don’t lose faith in him as a general dentist. Just understand that fixing broken teeth and creating beautiful smiles are two very different functions.

Further information about Vivaneers:
Vivaneers are a brand of porcelain veneers that are very much like Lumineers. They can be made extra thin, and the advertising suggests that they can be without preparing the teeth. So they appeal to general dentists who know very little about cosmetic dentistry. Read our blog posts about Lumineers by clicking the category on the right. You may also want to go to our main web site Lumineers page for some excellent information and cautions. Everything said about Lumineers can be applied to Vivaneers.

- Dr. Hall

Related information:
Care of porcelain veneers

Dear Mike,
Before answering your question, I have a couple of comments.

First, let’s say you can do eight teeth with Lumineers for a new smile and you found a dentist willing to charge only $1125 apiece. And then let’s say you found a dentist who would charge $1450 apiece. The cheap dentist is just a dentist – not an artist, and your teeth would end up a little bulky and funny looking. It would cost $9000. And at the end, your teeth would be straight and whiter but kind of funny-looking. Or, you could go to the other dentist and for $11,600 you could get an absolutely stunning smile, with another brand of porcelain veneers, because this dentist is an artist and is also fully trained in cosmetic dentistry, with a passion for beauty. Which would you choose?

I’m reflecting this back to you, because this seems to me what you’re asking. You’re saying to me that you don’t care how artistic the dentist is or how your teeth end up looking, as long as you can get something pasted over the top of your teeth. You just want the best price. But cosmetic dentistry isn’t like general dentistry. Dentists are trained to fix things, and they generally do a pretty good job of that, with some exceptions. You have a broken tooth, they fix it. You’re in pain, they get you out of pain. But when it comes to creating a great-looking smile, dentists aren’t trained to do that. It takes a dentist with artistic talent and passion to do that, and only a small minority of dentists can pull that off. Oh, you would end up with teeth that would be white and probably would be straight, but they would be about two millimeters longer than your present teeth and would likely be bulky and funny-looking. I don’t know why you would want to spend $9000 for that, when for a little more you could get a truly fabulous smile.

Here’s what I’d recommend: Drop the idea that you HAVE TO HAVE Lumineers, and go for the end result. You’re always better off to pick the dentist/artist and let them use the brand of porcelain they’re most comfortable with. You get into all kinds of trouble when you pick the brand and then ask a dentist to do that brand and no other. You’re in the Chicago area, and we have a number of excellent cosmetic dentists that we list there (see our Illinois cosmetic dentists page). Call each office and ask what the fee is for porcelain veneers. See if you can find a great cosmetic dental office that will talk money with you and that will be in your price range. I bet you’ll find a great cosmetic dentist who will be within your price range. But if you don’t, then my advice is to save up your money for a little longer and get it done right.

I hope this is helpful.
- Dr. Hall

Related links:
Cost of Lumineers
Cost of porcelain veneers
Post-operative care of porcelain veneers
Click here to find a cosmetic dentist